Your Guide to Surrogacy: A Journey of Hope, Love, and Parenthood

No, initially, it wasn't planned to have three children! We were literally abandoned in Mexico by this agency. There will be no soccer team, there will be no little sister! [Applause and cheers from the audience] Hello, my little ones, hello everyone! Today, in this new episode of of HappyGayTV & YOU, we're very lucky to welcome an interesting

couple, who lived an equally interesting adventure, I want you to give a thunder of applause for Rémy and Kévin! [Applause and cheers] Hello Kévin, hello Rémy, I really wanted to to thank you for accepting to host us in your restaurant, at the Auberge des Délices in Roanne, France, and for accepting to answer these questions

from the HappyGayTV followers, left on the Hot-Line, our internal social network, which is also included in the channel. And so, you're the proud fathers of three beautiful boys: Louis, Julio and Lucas, born through surrogate motherhood, and you had the brilliant idea of telling your incredible journey, in a book entitled “Notre GPA” (Our surrogate motherhood), published by Editions de l'Onde. A book written by Rémy that takes us almost

day by day in your journey into parenthood. Needless to say that the team loved this book, because it's much more than just a testimonial, it's like a diary, where we follow you every step of the way in your pursuit to start a family, to have children. We share your laughter, your tears, we cry, we laugh, we even fear for you! And I have to tell you,

in all honesty, that this book overwhelmed me. Because when reading it, I really got the impression that your children were kind of... mine! Well, yes, I've never had a child, I felt through your words, what it's like to become a father. It's touching, it's deep, it's an extraordinary human adventure.

And for me, this book is a genuine anthem to life. It has the power to change mentalities, offer a new perspective for gay couples, who want to start a family. And more, too, to find out more about the story of Rémy and Kévin, you who are watching, you're also going to get some answers, throughout this episode, to the most frequently asked questions,

practical advice that can really help you in your surrogacy project. And all this, in good cheer and good humor, as we know so well on HappyGayTV. So feel free to share this video on social media, by e-mail, SMS or any other means, to your friends, to your family, whoever you want, but share! So, Rémy and Kévin, hello! What makes your story even more unique,

is that you find yourself today with three wonderful boys, which, in fact, in the beginning wasn't planned at all? It's as if, a fairy godmother leaned over your cradle, or rather on your family. A gift from heaven, or simply or simply the work of chance? Well, hello Marco, hello to our audience. So, no, initially, we weren't planning to have three children!

Originally, we went to Mexico to have a child and maybe two. And by pure chance, we find ourselves with three children! So, this was the very first question. [Sings] HappyGayTV, Happy ! Hello Kévin, hello Rémy, this is Christophe from the chambre d'hôte at

Mas Pouantais, in Pouant, 86. I can imagine that entering into the surrogacy world, has to be quite complex and it's not a... quite a small job, actually! I guess you don't always come across caring people, ... to say the least. Well, let's keep it nice and soft, and you've certainly had to wipe the slate clean... That's it!

Do you have any advice for us? to keep other future dads, from experiencing such inconveniences? Because we, too, have been looking into that. And that's it. So, if you have any advice for us. Either way, thank you very much for everything, and good luck with your book. Hello Christophe, thank you for your question. Yes, it's a bit of an obstacle course.

There are two or three tricks to know, such as the first, always call a clinic and not an agency, like we did at the very beginning, which caused us to lose money and time. So, what are these agencies, anyway? So, agencies, it's a bit like a broker, they buy programs at low cost

in clinics, and sell them to Europeans. Did that help a little or not at all? Well, not at all, because of that, we were literally abandoned... in Mexico by this rather unscrupulous agency, and we were picked up by the clinic who helped us with the rest of our program. So, you need to go on the internet, and type what?

Surrogacy clinic or specializing clinics specializing in surrocacy? Do they have websites in French? How's everything done? It's a bit complicated at first, so we advise dads to go directly to the clinics in each country. You give us the info, and we'll put it below the video. No problem. [Sung] HappyGayTV!

Can you see them? Aurélia, Carlos, Carolina, Christophe, Ludovic, Miguel-Ange, PetitBear, Thierry!

All participated in this show. But how did they know about the upcoming shoot? Simply by subscribing to HappyGayTV Club. Sign up for free to get, just like them, all the exclusive information : new shows, shootings, invitations, and if you're interested in a show, leave your question on the Hot-Line.

So, what are you waiting for? Sign up for free, and join the HappyGayTV community, to experience the show from the inside, just like them! Hello, I'm Ludovic from Jura. Hello Kévin, hello Rémy. I'd like to know, you've just went through a surrogacy in Mexico.

Why did you choose this country as opposed to others? And is it simply a matter of cost? Thank you, have a nice day and talk to you soon. Hello Ludo. So, it's important to know that before getting into a surrogacy journey in Mexico, it took us about six months to do some research on the internet. We asked around on forums, on several clinics,

we had a lot of information to absorb. And then, after talking to several dads, we got some good feedback from Mexico. It's important to know that there aren't many countries that accept surrogacy for homosexuals. W had Ukraine, but with the war going on, well, that's one less country. There was Mexico,

Canada and the United States. And basically, we've repatriated to Mexico because we'd had good reports. There were dads who had babies there, it went really well, so they referred us to the broker. So, we didn't know it was a broker initially, we signed contracts with him, he did work with Mexico too,

so it was perfect for us. Just as we understood it, you've cut the broker loose along the way. We went all the way to Mexico with the broker. Once we got there, we were taken care of by the clinic, and there we noticed that the prices were completely different from the broker. So we asked him why there was such a big price gap between the two.

And he simply told us that actually, it was the broker who was taking this margin between the two. So we asked the clinic would it be possible to avoid the broker? They said: - “The issue is how much, how much money did you give to this broker”? So, we told him the amount. He said: - “The thing is the first deduction he takes from you, it'll be for him!

So, don't think of going with a broker, really? Yes, absolutely, yes! They really are asking for big money and we find it a little bit shameful. Well, it's an intermediary, they're here to tell us Mexico is fine, go there! They give us the coordinates and take the commission. [Sings] HappyGayTV!

Hello Rémy, Hello Kévin. So, in your book, you're talking about surrogate women and not surrogate mothers. Why is that? More importantly, why don't you talk about surrogates? Because there are people who, you know,

who aren't necessarily women women, or who don't feel necessarily women, and who are, or may be able to carry a child as well... So, why are you simply using the term of surrogate women? Thank you very much. So, to fully understand what PetitBear is trying to tell us is that indeed, trans men do exist, i.e. women who have become men,

and these people are therefore able potentially to carry a baby. But first, Kevin, why Rémy talks in the book about surrogate women and not, surrogate mothers? Hello LittleBear. The surrogate mother, would be the biological mother of the child, whereas this is not the case. And the surrogate woman, she carries a child who is not

genetically hers. We use an egg donor who goes where... we'll fertilize the egg to implant it in the surrogate woman. So, you talk about it a little bit in the book and it's very interesting, you... You can choose from a catalog. I'm not talking about surrogate women, but the biological mother of the child, the one who donates the egg.

You have, also, established criteria, I believe? Yes. So, we choose the egg donor on physical criteria, whether you want her to be European, American, Asian, all that... You can know almost everything about them, their jobs, their level of education, what their parents do for a living, how many brothers and sisters... and...

their entire genetic heritage. If they've had health issues or anything like that... Everything's out of the way... - All right! - before the implantation. So, really, the selection is very, very precise. And do you have any tips to give us so we don't get lost? Since our surrogacy experience, now, there are two processes slightly different. There are either photos catalogs.

Here, they've all undergone genetic tests. And now.., there's also a new formula, where you choose, not based on photos, but on physical features only. This makes it possible to have much less expensive programs. What were the choices that were common to both of you? Just out of curiosity? We wanted the egg donor as tall as possible

and looks as much like... Europeans. In reply to PetitBear's question regarding gestational carriers. Yes. ! So, regarding gestational carriers, for us, the pattern of a child, is to be born of a father and a mother. So, we wanted to keep that pattern. So that's why we used a surrogate mother,

rather than a a gestational carrier. Because the children will stay in contact with the surrogate mother? Yes! At the end of our surrogate journey, we agreed to stay in touch with the surrogate mothers, to establish a bond and for later, so that our children can know their origins and roots. Yes, but not those of the egg donor. We agree, this will remain a secret?

The egg donor remains totally anonymous under Mexican law. [Sung] HappyGayTV! Hello Kévin, hello Rémy. This is Carolina. I'm about to go on stage, but I've been dying to ask you a question, before I start singing. I wanted to know if, when you went through with the surrogacy, you put the embryos in vitro, etc.

Did you have the opportunity to choose the eyes, the eye color, the hair color? And for that matter, I say to myself, will we ever be able to choose the color of the fringe, just like mine? Huh? Who knows? As long as we do it with love! Besos (Kisses). I think Carolina is in her spare time,

somewhat non-binary and has forgotten the main thing, to be able to choose the gender of children! [Laughter] Carolina who, as we speak, performs on stage in a magnificent show: “Different”, and will be touring France, Belgium and Switzerland soon. You can find all the tour dates just below the video.

Kévin and Rémy, were you able to choose the gender of your children? Was it your choice? to have only boys initially, or had you considered having girls? Hello, Carolina. So, when the embryos are created, you need to know that you have the option of PID : pre-implantation diagnosis. With these features, after the report, we'll know,

whether the embryos are girl embryos, or boy embryos. So, initially, we always said that, if we had children, we'd have boys. So, to get my embryos, it was very easy to to get them. The doctor then asked us if we wanted to do the test, which we accepted, and we had six embryos with three girls and three boys. So, we said to ourselves, we're going to implant a boy,

we're sure to have one. And for Kevin, his embryos, it was much more complicated to get them. The doctor, then, advised against this PID, because it would make the embryos even more fragile. He said: - "We would risk losing them”. So, as explained in the book, it was very complicated to to get them. So we decided not to do this PID

at the risk of losing all the embryos. Yes, what I find extraordinary about your adventure, is that for reasons you'll discover in the book, why, did we have a more difficult time, to have embryos with Kevin. The funniest, is you Rémy, apparently, you're leaving in pool position

and eventually, your son will arrive... last one, if I may say so... (Laughter) in third position! That's right, yes! We won't say why, but you can look it up in the book because it's actually quite funny! As you can see, it's still a gamble!

Yes, that's right! Normally, everything was easy for me from the beginning, then it got a bit more complicated for me, and it was a lot easier for Kevin. The roles were reversed. There you go, so you can check out the book, Editions de l'Onde : “Notre GPA”, it's a book, where you're going to experience huge emotional ups and downs.

It's a beautiful adventure and a genuine adventure. I recommend it. [Sung] HappyGayTV! Hello, this is Carlos, from "Carlos Massages Bien-Être", in Cap d'Agde. I have a question for Rémy and Kévin : what happened to them, the embryos from in vitro fertilization, the remaining ones? Have they been destroyed, or are you going to use them for...

for a future, surrogate experience? What about all this? Thanks a lot. Carlos, from Carlos Massage Bien-Être, which will be soon to be a guest on this show, and who will answer all questions from our followers, just as we're doing today with Kévin and Rémy. So Rémy, what happened to the embryos? Were there any others? That's what I understand?

Yes, we had embryos. The clinic automatically keeps the... embryos for one year. It's included in the contract. Because, if there are miscarriages, there has to be genetic material to be able to put back embryos as we go along, in surrogate mothers. So we don't have to go back to Mexico to give our gametes and start the whole process all over again. So, they keep them, regardless for a year,

That's clear. So, we've thrown the girls in the trash? Or, is there perhaps opportunity to have a little sister in a few years? Well, me in the end, I had four left and for Kevin, two left. And after a year, just like that, they ask us what we want to do with the embryos? We thought long and hard for a second,

[Laughter] and we said that after a year, when we had our children in France, we didn't want more children. Three children already, that's incredible, it's a lot of work, it's exhausting, it's moments of joy, moments of... moments of fatigue... So we said no, we'd stop here! So all the embryos were thrown away? - We said that's it,

we said they could destroy the embryos, with no regrets. That's it! So there won't be little sister? No, there won't be little sister! There won't be a soccer team, [Laughter] there'll be no little sister! [Laughter and applause] [Sings] HappyGayTV! Hello Marco, hello Kévin and Rémy. In your book, you talk about ethical surrogacy, but is this really the case for everyone?

So, I'm speaking as a woman, straight and, above all, a mother of three children. And even if I understand what's behin the desire for children, this process, whether for a gay or straight couple really concerns me. Because a surrogacy, it's still a contract, therefore a form of commodification, a financial agreement, where a woman offers her uterus for a couple

who wish to have children, and can't have any for various reasons. So, we're talking about ethics, but it's a word to reassure, insofar as, we know that regulations governing surrogacy are not the same everywhere. So, how are organizing companies regulating these connections? How much does it cost for a couple to have

the chance to be happy parents? We're talking about ethics, but do we need to fear a new form of surrogacy tourism, where women can rent out their wombs for a profit? So, I'll finish with this, where in my capacity, I remind you that a pregnancy is never without risk, just as there are real risks for the woman and the unborn child.

And that's all! So, are these notions included in ethics? That's it, thank you very much. Thank you, Aurelia, and I'm very proud that we've had in this show the opinion, the point of view, of a woman! Kévin and Rémy, there's one thing that strikes me in what she told us, is the expressions “commodification”, and also the term, “surrogacy tourism”, and then, “ethical surrogacy”.

And more generally, what can you say to Aurelia about ethics? In fact, I think, as explained in the book, that for you too, it was at some point a bit critical? Dads' lives were almost at risk without talking too much about it! So, yes Marco, ... we ran ...

in a bit of a fuss! To answer Aurelia's question about ethical surrogacy. So ethical surrogacy, is about respecting the surrogate woman, and everything that revolves around pregnancy. That is, the care provided... throughout pregnancy, to the carrier, and all those around her.

Because, when you sign a surrogacy contract in certain clinics, all the care provided to the children, she has prior, are taken care of by the clinic. So let's start by saying one thing, it's that she volunteers, to be a surrogate. Actually, it's somewhat, an encounter between a life project that's yours, which is to have children,

and her, often looking to buy a house, or something like that. You realize, in the book, that it's quite a job! And that's the question I ask myself, about ethical surrogacy, we're talking about the commodification of wombs, as Aurelia says, but, because it's a job, please tell me if you agree, it's practically slavery,

if they did it for free? What do you think, about the term “commodification”, and that they are remunerated? So, regarding the term “commodification”, Every medical treatment is a commodification, so to speak. In France, we have Social Security that pays for us. The difference is that, in a foreign country, we pay for them. She also benefits from follow-up,

after pregnancy, after childbirth, she has psychological support and medical follow-up, for two years. Is it like that in all countries? Have you done a little bit of research? Each clinic has its own protocol, and each country has legislation. So, actually..., that's a fair answer, to Aurelia's double edged question.

And for you, Mexico, in terms of ethics, ticked all the boxes? Yes ! For us, Mexico ticks all the boxes, respecting the rights of the surrogate, the child, and family situation. Rémy, you wanted to add something about the term ethical surrogacy, in fact. In an ethical surrogacy, all the protagonists of the pregnancy,

of genetics and parenthood are known, respected, heard. Surely, after that there's money involved, there's a lot of talk about remuneration. Of course, the surrogate mother will receive compensation. We're not going to talk compensation because remuneration implies a job. She's not going to work for us. We'll compensate her. Compensation for what?

Quite simply, to compensate her because she's going to have to go to a lot of medical appointments which are much more frequent than in France. So maybe she'll, take days off to attend medical appointments. She is under the care of nutritionists, a very strict diet, which may well generate an additional cost for her? Of course, she'll be buying clothes, too,

because she'll gain some weight! So, we have to compensate her for that, because she shouldn't be the one who's going to buy clothes for our pregnancy! Maybe, in the end, she'll have a C-section, a scar for life. So, basically, we're giving this money to this woman, to compensate her for all inconveniences she will experience during the pregnancy. When we read your book, Rémy,

we can see, that it's an encounter between two life projects, yours, to have children, and I can't remember if it was Erika or Haydee, but she wanted to put money aside to get a house, to give it away again... to their children. So, somewhere, they still have some money left? Yes, they do! And it's still ethical? It's ethical, yes!

[Sung] HappyGayTV! Hello Rémy and Kévin, this is Thierry CARA, author of Le Chant des Particules. So, first of all, thank you for your great testimony, really beautiful. And thank you for allowing us to ask such questions, it's really great! So, my question is about the choice

to opt for surrogacy, and not that of adopting a child directly, one or more children. Because after all it seems to me that to create a genuine family as legally understood, you'll have to eventually go through adoption and adopt one or more of your spouse's children. So, maybe it's twice as much work,

worries and maybe even money. Thank you for your answer. Just a quick word about Thierry, before answering. He has just published a futuristic novel: “Le chant des Particules" (The song of the particles), where you'll also find gay characters. So Kévin and Rémy, isn't it simpler to adopt directly one or more children since in fine, you're going to have to do it?

You're even, as we are filming these images, waiting for the court's decision. I think Rémy wants to answer the question. Yes, absolutely! Hello Thierry. So, you should know that since marriage for all, all homosexual couples, have the right to adopt in France. But the process is very complicated and time-consuming and it's very rare for a gay couple

to complete the entire process. So, we turned to surrogacy, because we also wanted a genetic child. And yes, in the end, we'll have to adopt our children jointly. But this is much easier. It's just like a heterosexual couple, we go to court, you file a case, and adoption is simpler and much faster. Adopting a ward of the state, it's much longer,

much more tedious, and we didn't want to get involved into that, for, perhaps in the end, end up with nothing after a few years. What I'd like to say, without revealing what's in the in the book, because it's a great adventure, it's not easy, when you're gay and want to adopt, you can look it up in the book, because we actually, I don't know if we can say, put obstacles in your way,

but we're still making it harder for you! Yes, absolutely yes! To this day, children are still adopted. But I think it's going to happen soon. If you'd like to follow Rémy and Kévin's story and know where they are in their adoption process, we'll keep you posted through the HappyGayTV Club. So don't hesitate to come join us, it's easy and it's free.

Just go to the main menu, in the “main menu”, as we say in English, and click on HappyGayTV Club, and then follow the instructions. It's as easy peasy as that! [Sung] HappyGayTV! Hello Kévin and Rémy. I hope you're well. I'd like to ask you a question about your adventure of becoming new dads. I wanted to know if you thought about

what you might tell your children, when it comes to school, you're likely to say, at some point a moment: “Ah well, you, you don't have a mom, ... or, you have two dads”. Oh, do I? Have you ever figured out any words yet, to help them through this... this jungle of life? Michelangelo, thank you for your question,

and you can find him on stage with a play about family and siblings, and that is a cry of love to his little brother. And quite rightly so, both the title of the play and of the book from which it was taken. So, Rémy and Kévin, today, your two children will soon be two years old, They'll soon be heading to school, where the other children, unintentionally, are often so unkind.

So how do we prepare them to face these thoughts like these? I don't know: “You don't have a mom”... "Your dads are gay,"... or stuff like that! And it might happen, especially when they grow up. So, do you already have a strategy in place yet? to help them, and mentally prepare them just like athletes? Hello Miguel.

So, which family is perfect? All families are different. There are blended families, families with two dads, families with one dad, one mom, two moms... The big plus, is that we have ... three children of the same age, so a sibling. So they'll always be tightly together.

We'll explain it to them, all possible differences. We're going to teach them to embrace this difference, and share it with others. Rémy, did you want to add something? Yes, the children, I think they're necessarily going to have throughout their lives, unpleasant comments, or... or unkindness. But I think that for our children, we're going to have to learn to dialogue.

We're going to have to do a lot of talking. From the day they were born, I've been reading them books that explain their background, how they were born. I explain it to them, that all families can be different, and I think that by reading these stories, talking to them, I think it's going to be a lot more smooth with them. And maybe also tell them if there's an issue

in school, too, you come right away tell me. Exactly! There you go. Don't have that fear, to see... that the slightest little concern, they tell us about it,

so it doesn't consume them and that, we'll try our best to solve the problem quickly. Here you go, my little ones, to order Rémy's book, go to all bookshops in France, in Belgium and even Switzerland, or click directly on the link we've provided below the video. To be notified of the next video coming soon, including the next episode with Kévin and Rémy, join the HappyGayTV Club,

and to keep in touch together, it's through the Hot-Line! So, you've got it all figured out, you create your account, it's free! You log in to the HappyGayTV Club, and hop, ahead for new adventures, all together! Rémy and Kévin, thank you very much. On that note, my little loolous, see you soon.

Take good care of yourselves. Ciao! Ciao! [Voiceover]: How to be gay and Hqppy [Music]...

He'd rather see Rémy! And now I can check him out, without him noticing! [Laughter] [Music]...